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| Author: | Dave M [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:26 am ] |
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Hello everybody I've decided to come out of hiding and start working on guitars again. Does anyone have any thoughts or guidance on choosing a dust collector? I'm considering the Grizzly 2 HP Canister model. I don't have any experience with dust collectors but this looks like the best for the money. Any thoughts? |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:28 am ] |
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How many/what kind of machines are you using? It will be a bit more of an initial investment but I'd suggest a cyclone and hard plumbing the shop so you don't ever have to unhook and move the collector. |
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| Author: | Dave M [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:37 am ] |
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I have a 10" tablesaw, 16" band saw, Power Mitre saw, combination disc/belt sander, Drill Press, looking for a deal on a Performax 16/32 sander, intend to build a downdraft sanding table. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:37 am ] |
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Dave, you're not really in Afghanistan, right? Part of deciding what dust collection system to use is predicated on what tools you plan to attach to it, and how long a run of ductwork you need. The canister units typically offer a little better performance and ease of use than the old bag style units, but far and away better are the more powerful cyclone units sold by companies like Oneida, Penn State, and Grizzly also. They are also a good bit more expensive, but depending on the application, can be well worth the investment. Example. I have the bag-style 1.5 hp Grizzly that had high ratings when I bought it. Although it certainly works decently, I don't feel it really has the power to deal with a surface sander or a bandsaw. I plan on replacing it with an Oneida cyclone unit as soon as I can afford to, because the new Grizzly 18" widebelt sander I'd like to order will require a better dust collector than the old bag unit. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:40 am ] |
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Agree with Paul. Maybe with one caveat, and that would be how much are you going to do? If every day and a bunch then the bigger and hard plumbing if possible. If a few hours a week and few guitars, smaller would work, and move it to the particular machine using. Hard plumbing is best if can do it with whatever doing, but I have and we do each machine as needed in part of shop, part is hard plumb. Depends on budget, and how much use. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 3:46 am ] |
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Good point Stan, with one caveat of my own. I've found that if a dust collector is much more trouble that flipping a switch and opening a blast gate, it often isn't used. The "I'm only makeing one small cut" comes into play and then when you are making 100 "only small cuts" the dust can be a serious issue. I guess my advice is to think into the future with this. And don't buy on a whim just because it's cheap. If it's cheap, it's likely "cheap". |
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| Author: | Bruce Dickey [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:03 am ] |
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Hi Dave, welcome back. love my dishes, use 'em all the time. I'm not happy with my dust collector, even though it's big and powerful. But I saw something this weekend that was the bees knees. At Ron Wisdom's place, old man, was his excellent dust collection system. It had two metal trash cans with cyclone action tops for collecting the big stuff. Then he had a pleated upper filter collector with bag bottom. He simply reached up and grabbed a handle, which went around inside the upper filter and shakes the filter as it thumps past each pleat. The excess falls into the bag, renewing the collective surfaces of the filter to a non-coated state. Ron also has an ambient room filter mounted on top of a wall above the regular collector. All you had to do is look around the room and see that it was basically dust free. So, I'm facing the same deal as you to improve dust collection in my shop. good luck, and welcome back. The subject plea may get us some pics of Ron's excellent system. I'm sure there are many ways for it to work well. How about it Ron? |
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| Author: | Dave M [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:06 am ] |
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No I'm not in Afganistan! That was a boo boo when I re-activated my account. |
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| Author: | Dave M [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:15 am ] |
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Hi Bruce, Good to hear from you. I'm glad you are getting good use of the dishes. The canister system I am looking at is like the one you described except without the cyclone seperater. I may add one of those later. The Grizzly machine I am looking at is about all I can afford right now, and if you saw my shop you would wonder why I haven't died of some lung desease already. I do wear a good respirator but I AM LONG OVERDUE for a dust collection system. I was just wondering if anyone here had any experience with the new canister systems. Supposedly they catch much smaller dust than the old bag collectors (no pun intended). 1 to 2 microns as opposed to 30 microns. |
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| Author: | Brad Way [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:20 am ] |
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Dave, I have a Delta Bag model that seems to work but if I had it to do over I would get a cyclone. IMHO. |
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| Author: | Chris Ide [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 4:50 am ] |
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Among woodworkers the progression seems to be first a shop vac screaming attempting to keep up with the dust from a table saw, then a small 1hp unit rolled around from tool to tool until a planer enters the picture, then a more powerful 2hp unit with some configuration of hard plumbing. After a few attempts at improved performance, 1 micron bags, or a cannister filter finally a 3hp+ cyclone that actually does the job. I've reached the limit of upgrades on my 2hp griz, a cyclone is my future. BTW the best upgrade after a cannister filter was getting rid of the 4" Y and 5" inlet at the blower and using a 6" main trunk with a 6" inlet. |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:00 am ] |
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Am I wrong in thinking that the cyclone is for separating medium size chunks from dust, so that if you are pretty much only picking up dust, there's no reason to use one? Where do planer and jointer shavings end up with a cyclone? |
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| Author: | old man [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:16 am ] |
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Howard you are correct. The trashcan/cyclone catches all the chips and most of the sawdust. Only the finer dust goes to the collectors filters. When I'm sanding and only generating fine dust, I use a hose that bypasses the cyclone and goes directly to the collector. It could, of course, pass through the cyclone, but mine doesn't. Pics of mine are among the shop pics I posted earlier and I am including a link below. I have a gate for each machine so I can get full suction where I need it. It is a Penn State collector, 2 Hp, 220V, with 1 micron canister. Old Man's Dust Collector Ron |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:23 am ] |
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Howard, that's exactly the purpose of those aftermarket trashcan "cyclones". But a real cyclone collector gets the whole kit-n-kaboodle spinning. The fine particles even make it down to the bottom. I've had mine running pretty much every day for 4 years and have only replaced the filters once. |
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| Author: | old man [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 5:32 am ] |
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Even my system has the cyclone action in the collector, too. It spins around like crazy in the lower bag and most of the heavier dust gets separated from the finer dust inside the system itself, before going to the filter. Ron |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:49 am ] |
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As nice as that cyclone feature is, the performance of the dust collector is more about horsepower and the ability to move a volume of air at high pressure levels under load. The quality and design of the impeller is also important to that end. My only gripe with the trashcan setup is that they leak like mad, and it is tough to get them sealed up. I had one for years in my system up until a couple weeks ago, and after I removed it, the system worked better. What can I say? |
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| Author: | Howard Klepper [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:39 am ] |
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So with a real cyclone, not the aftermarket trash can type, all but my finest dust will end up in the can under the funnel-shaped thing? |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:48 am ] |
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That's been my experience. When I empty the collection can, it is usually the consistancy of flour (with chips in it if I've been running the jointer). |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:54 am ] |
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Howard, correct. I am just getting use to having a cyclone system, its a Penn industries model. It has a .5 micron filter and that is the ONLY exhaust it has. After using it for over 2 months, there is almost not trace of dust on the floor next to the filter. My shop is cleaner than it ever has been, partly due to the fact that it is completely plumbed now. But also to the higher filtration of the cyclone system. Oh and yes, in the drum under the funnel is a plastic can that is full of all types of debris down to powder size saw dust. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Mon Mar 05, 2007 8:10 am ] |
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[QUOTE=Don Williams] As nice as that cyclone feature is, the performance of the dust collector is more about horsepower and the ability to move a volume of air at high pressure levels under load. The quality and design of the impeller is also important to that end. [/QUOTE] Don, I'm not sure that is entirely true. Horsepower is only going to help so much if the ducting and the rest of your system is not efficient. There is a LOT of info at Bill Penz Dust Collection Research page. One thing that might surprise some is that he recommends that "...Most small shops need to use just 6” duct throughout their dust collection system." Here is a small excerpt where he talks about HP. Efficiency is everything! This rule is based on a two simple facts. 1. Air at typical dust small shop dust collection pressures will hardly compress at all. As a result a poor design, undersized pipes, rough ducting or flex hose, sharp bends, etc. all act just like a water valve and kill airflow. You can make this up, and large commercial shops do just this, but what they live with is a need for a much larger blower. In practical terms adding 1/2 horsepower (HP) and a bigger impeller typical 1.5 HP blower only adds 10% more air volume! Adding horsepower and a bigger impeller is not an efficient way to gain capacity. 2. A poor design or air leaks will kill system efficiency. You must use straight or nearly straight duct runs using efficient piping. Every joint, curve, turn, or Y connection will hurt your efficiency. Every restriction will hurt your efficiency. Either you make a really efficient system, or you will have to live with terrible dust collection or buy a very big blower that will be expensive to purchase and run. |
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